한국국제교류재단

The following article is based on a dialogue between Dr. Jacques Revel, president of the Ecole des Hautes en Science Sociales (EHESS), and Dr. Lee In-ho, president of the Korea Foundation, during Dr. Revel's visit to Seoul at the invitation of the Korea Foundation, which has been reprinted from the Dong-A Ilbo's February 20, 2002 issue. This was an effort to review the contemporary flow of history from a historian's perspective. Dr. Revel represents the fourth generation of the Annales School and Dr. Lee is a Western history scholar. ―Ed.

"Q: Europe suffered extensive damage in World War II. It was amazing that, nevertheless, Europe recovered from the havoc in a short period of time."

"A: I believe the diversity of experience had presumably made it possible. Through their long history, Europeans have come to have the belief that uniformity entails danger and that Europe can grow stronger by accommodating differences. The United States has no history or experience to learn this from."

Lee Currently, the world is experiencing significant changes. One change is the creation of the European Union (EU). A look at the birth of the EU reveals some incomprehensible aspects. European countries have in effect different cultural backgrounds. What power put these countries together?

Revel The historical experiences of France, Germany and other European countries are important. I believe World War II was especially an important moment as all European countries felt acutely responsible for the havoc wrought by the war. They came to believe that they could not allow this unfortunate history to reoccur.

EU's Birth Possible through Reflection on Unfortunate Past

Lee Whereas historical liquidation relating to World War II has been attained with substantial success in Europe, controversies continue in East Asia over Japan's responsibility for the war. What do you believe are the differences between Europe and East Asia?

Revel After World War II, Japan pursued development with full-fledged support from the United States. In Europe, however, Germany had no such blessing. Germany had already been divided and was under intense pressure from the Soviet Union. Under these circumstances, Germany, surrounded by other European countries, had no way but to concede to its mistake.

Lee Poland and Germany have prepared and are using common history books. I believe it was not easy to do that. What made that attempt a success?

Revel I think there is a problem with common history books. The history books have been periodically revised, which is significant in the sense of overcoming the standardization of history; however, this can be taken as a fiction rather than being the history of a fact. Europe seems to be one region geographically, but it is also an area where wars have not ceased to rage. This was why the attempt at integration had to be accepted. I believe, however, that a desirable way of describing the history of Europe is to preserve these very diverse histories.

Lee I am curious if French students also have an interest in history. What are the matters of major concern to students?

Revel Students are interested in history. One thing I regret, however, is that their interest in the study of historical materials has declined. France is a country that has developed amid time-honored traditions of classical culture. I am concerned about the declining interest in classical studies. Today's students are interested more in the study of modern histories by learning foreign languages than learning the Latin language. Students clearly seem far less interested in matters of peace and politics than the people of our generation. Students have distanced themselves farther away from prejudice than the generation of their parents. Students seem interested more in ethics than in politics and more in citizens's rights than in civil society. One exception may well be the question of globalization. In fact, globalization is the most important theme today. Students are attracted by, yet concerned about, globalization. Seen in the eyes of a historian, globalization, which has become a theme in the past decade, has in effect been underway since the 15th or 16th century. It is true that young people feel fairly uneasy about the future of globalization.

Lee There are many world-renowned scholars in France. Which scholars have the most influence on the young people of France?

Revel They include Pierre Bourdieu, who died a while ago, and Jacques Derrida, a philosopher. In France, scholars are recognized as intellectuals. The case of Jurgen Habermas shows that scholars are also treated as intellectuals in Germany. In the United States and the United Kingdom, however, scholars remain mere scholars and are not considered intellectuals. To the contrary in France, scholars are respected as influential leaders, therefore having social obligations.

Lee Europe suffered extensive damage in World War II. It was amazing that, nevertheless, Europe recovered from the havoc in a short period of time.

Revel I believe the diversity of experience had presumably made it possible. Through their long history, Europeans have come to have the belief that uniformity entails danger and that Europe can grow stronger by accommodating differences. The United States has no history or experience to learn this from.

Humanitarian Support rather than Bombs Needed for Democratization of Afghanistan

Lee The September 11 terrorism that occurred in the United States last year shocked many people. Some people have suggested that the incident has d a momentum that has caused a turning point in the flow of world history.

Revel There has been a big change in the method of raising questions since the September 11. People panicked, and therefore sided with the United States, who were said to have been countering terrorism. This is because the incident showed that even the United States is vulnerable and could in reality be attacked.
Meanwhile, as fanatics and a small number of radicals have reaffirmed it, anti-American sentiment is very serious. Six months later, the clarity of the situation has faded quite a bit. It has been realized that it is no longer possible to live under a single monopolistic influence called the United States. People have come not to support the United States, but also the distinction between good and bad. Today, even the definition of terrorism changes depending on by whom and how it is defined. Under these circumstances, international relations demand stronger alliances. A political balance, the kind that existed in post-World War II years, is needed now more than ever.

Lee How do you think the Afghan questionshould be resolved?

Revel That is a difficult question to answer. The Afghan question does not stem from the Taliban or even the United States. Therefore, expulsion of the Taliban does not necessarily bring about democratization and the resolution of the Afghan question. The tradition of democracy necessitates a long period of experience, trials and errors. Some people say the latest development represents a clash of civilizations, but I do not agree. Civilizations carry more complicated aspects than what are discussed by Prof. Samuel Huntington. The so-called 'clash of civilizations' does not derive from the September 11 terrorism but has occurred in Europe over a long period of time. The tasks now facing Europe have been lingering since the 15th century. However, people have been not only waging conflicts and struggles but promoting compromises and integration, as well.
The United States and Russia become involved in Afghanistan for their respective geopolitical reasons. However, showering the country with bombs is by no means a resolution. Food and hospitals should be provided with the money that is used to produce bombs. What we need is the minimum necessary conditions for a man to live.



Dr. Lee In-ho

After graduating from Wellesley College, U.S., in 1960, Dr. Lee received her Ph.D. from Harvard University in 1967 for her study on the history of Russia. She taught at Columbia University and Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey before returning to Korea where she served as professor of Western history at Korea University, 1972-79, and Seoul National University, 1979-96. She was appointed as ambassador to Finland in 1996 and to Russia in 1998. Since 2000, Dr. Lee has served as president of the Korea Foundation.


Dr. Jacques Revel

Dr. Revel graduated from the Ecole normale supreieure (ENS) of Paris in 1968 and obtained qualifications for a history professorship in the same year. After serving as a fellow at the National Institute for Sciences in Paris, 1973-77, he joined the EHESS in 1977, serving as its president since 1995. Dr. Revel, who represents the fourth generation of the Annales School, once worked as editor of the Annales, an organ of the school. Presently, Dr. Revel concurrently serves as a consultant for numerous European universities,institutes and academic organizations.


The Annales School and EHESS

The Annales School requires a structural view of an entire society or group instead of a description focused on chronology and heroes. Calling for the removal of three idols: politics, individuals and chronology, the school pursues the study of entire societies instead of politics, groups instead of individuals, and a structural interpretation instead of chronology. Ecole des Hautes Etudes en Science Sociales (EHESS) is the highest-level French university for history and social sciences centered on postgraduate programs. The university succeeds to the flow of Annales, a branch of the history circle in France. ―Ed.